Sometimes its fine like we had a Christmas Eve outing all together without any drama. Me: Look you're not over it..you told me that last night and I can just tell..I honestly don't even know you anymore..I'm out all of the time now..If you see me out, come say hi and we'll see what happens. I know I cant save him and it needs to come from him but something just doesnt add up. Just to add too- I've been ignoring her weekly texts for roughly the last six weeks. Basically in a nutshell, my ex and I are still in college. I'm with shuttle, it's almost like she gave you the sob story to gauge what's going on with your life and your feelings. Just imagine if you were d Let it slide, because if it happened once it certainly bound to happen again at once point and you guys are not going to be the same peeps as you were prevously. I suspect that if the "power struggle" and "game playing" weren't still going on she'd never have shown up to begin with. This has never happened to me, but I think you nailed it on when you said this 'She said that she never knew what it was like to be alone and she's learning that now. ' ._1QwShihKKlyRXyQSlqYaWW{height:16px;width:16px;vertical-align:bottom}._2X6EB3ZhEeXCh1eIVA64XM{margin-left:3px}._1jNPl3YUk6zbpLWdjaJT1r{font-size:12px;font-weight:500;line-height:16px;border-radius:2px;display:inline-block;margin-right:5px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;vertical-align:text-bottom;white-space:pre;word-break:normal;padding:0 4px}._1jNPl3YUk6zbpLWdjaJT1r._39BEcWjOlYi1QGcJil6-yl{padding:0}._2hSecp_zkPm_s5ddV2htoj{font-size:12px;font-weight:500;line-height:16px;border-radius:2px;display:inline-block;margin-right:5px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;vertical-align:text-bottom;white-space:pre;word-break:normal;margin-left:0;padding:0 4px}._2hSecp_zkPm_s5ddV2htoj._39BEcWjOlYi1QGcJil6-yl{padding:0}._1wzhGvvafQFOWAyA157okr{font-size:12px;font-weight:500;line-height:16px;border-radius:2px;margin-right:5px;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis;vertical-align:text-bottom;white-space:pre;word-break:normal;box-sizing:border-box;line-height:14px;padding:0 4px}._3BPVpMSn5b1vb1yTQuqCRH,._1wzhGvvafQFOWAyA157okr{display:inline-block;height:16px}._3BPVpMSn5b1vb1yTQuqCRH{background-color:var(--newRedditTheme-body);border-radius:50%;margin-left:5px;text-align:center;width:16px}._2cvySYWkqJfynvXFOpNc5L{height:10px;width:10px}.aJrgrewN9C8x1Fusdx4hh{padding:2px 8px}._1wj6zoMi6hRP5YhJ8nXWXE{font-size:14px;padding:7px 12px}._2VqfzH0dZ9dIl3XWNxs42y{border-radius:20px}._2VqfzH0dZ9dIl3XWNxs42y:hover{opacity:.85}._2VqfzH0dZ9dIl3XWNxs42y:active{transform:scale(.95)} Retroactive jealousy is affecting our relationship, what should we do? Do you know if she saw someone after you guys broke up? Make sure to keep your door locked. I Am The Only Family Member Not Invited To A Wedding - What Should I Do. I do this too. I didn't want to disrespect his choice and boundaries so I refrained from going to where he lives / works / etc. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. Very worried. I didn't do it because I wanted her back(even though if the chance came along, I might reconsider if circumstances were different), but because I honestly wanted to say hi to her parents. I've never done it, and I'd never even think of doing it. I dont know how to fix this honestly. I wouldn't recommend it if that is on your mind. I dont even do that to my own mother . (Also not the first time shes done this type of thing), Side note** she often uses being a mom as an excuse for her poor behavior because moms just worry so shes just being a mom . 3 weeks later I caught her. she thought I cheated on her and shes not the type of woman that takes that. This is a tough call dude. What else is new, huh? Nothing ever seems cut and dry in this department. She obviously has some issues to work out on h My ex is doing kindof the same thing, he dumped me while he was already living with his current gf. I think he has some growing up to do. Perhaps this was a mistake on my part. Both of us have been involved with other people, yet she still came running back to my apartment for whatever reason. jessb86a ._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ{border-top:1px solid var(--newCommunityTheme-widgetColors-lineColor);margin-top:16px;padding-top:16px}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN{margin:0;padding:0}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN ._2btz68cXFBI3RWcfSNwbmJ{font-family:Noto Sans,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:400;line-height:21px;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-pack:justify;justify-content:space-between;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;margin:8px 0}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN ._2btz68cXFBI3RWcfSNwbmJ.QgBK4ECuqpeR2umRjYcP2{opacity:.4}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN ._2btz68cXFBI3RWcfSNwbmJ label{font-size:12px;font-weight:500;line-height:16px;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._2NbKFI9n3wPM76pgfAPEsN ._2btz68cXFBI3RWcfSNwbmJ label svg{fill:currentColor;height:20px;margin-right:4px;width:20px;-ms-flex:0 0 auto;flex:0 0 auto}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._4OtOUaGIjjp2cNJMUxme_{-ms-flex-pack:justify;justify-content:space-between}._3Qx5bBCG_O8wVZee9J-KyJ ._4OtOUaGIjjp2cNJMUxme_ svg{display:inline-block;height:12px;width:12px}._2b2iJtPCDQ6eKanYDf3Jho{-ms-flex:0 0 auto;flex:0 0 auto}._4OtOUaGIjjp2cNJMUxme_{padding:0 12px}._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F{font-family:Noto Sans,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;letter-spacing:unset;line-height:16px;text-transform:unset;--textColor:var(--newCommunityTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetTextColor);--textColorHover:var(--newCommunityTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetTextColorShaded80);font-size:10px;font-weight:700;letter-spacing:.5px;line-height:12px;text-transform:uppercase;color:var(--textColor);fill:var(--textColor);opacity:1}._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F._2UlgIO1LIFVpT30ItAtPfb{--textColor:var(--newRedditTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetTextColor);--textColorHover:var(--newRedditTheme-widgetColors-sidebarWidgetTextColorShaded80)}._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F:active,._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F:hover{color:var(--textColorHover);fill:var(--textColorHover)}._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F:disabled,._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F[data-disabled],._1ra1vBLrjtHjhYDZ_gOy8F[disabled]{opacity:.5;cursor:not-allowed}._3a4fkgD25f5G-b0Y8wVIBe{margin-right:8px} Im so depresses, adgetated, stressed, frustrated, anoyed, hurt, and desprate, i dont want to go home many times when im I was a mess for the first two months, but then I pull myself out of the funk. If anyone got married the extended family has always been invited without excluding anyone. But then she'd test me by saying stuff like 'Well, you don't have to see me again' or 'Sorry for bothering you'. TL;DR - My question is kind of advice, support, or at least insist that he loves me and my first time she slept with someone. Its difficult because him turning up was a reaction to my NC I think. Why do you want him back? All completely unhinged and in an argument with my bf. I have not spoken to my husbands ex in over 2 years. ._2Gt13AX94UlLxkluAMsZqP{background-position:50%;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-size:contain;position:relative;display:inline-block} Some parents may expect to have a visit at some point, but may not know when.. She really needs to take time and learn more about herself. i would never force anything like that. It was discussed and both decided to have her just stay put. He mentioned names Id never heard of. I've read a lot of your posts though kid, so I know you know that. ._1sDtEhccxFpHDn2RUhxmSq{font-family:Noto Sans,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-weight:400;line-height:18px;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-flow:row nowrap;flex-flow:row nowrap}._1d4NeAxWOiy0JPz7aXRI64{color:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaText)}.icon._3tMM22A0evCEmrIk-8z4zO{margin:-2px 8px 0 0} Read More >, This has never happened in our family before. She brought up the fact that when we first started dating, she wasn't 100% over her ex(granted we started to date 6 months after they broke up). If he continues to show up at your door getting angry, get a restraining order. This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies. edit: But I'm an idiotyou'd probably be better off blocking her number and not answering the door next time. It doesn't matter whether you've got a fun story or are at the end of your rope; we are family. I hope for her own sake that she's on her own now. Ice queen obviously she had told her son I was learning russian. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. In addition, attorneys often put orders against harassment in divorce, custody and visitation judgments, which may also be violated by showing up unannounced at the other party's home. Call the police and make a complaint. Submitted: 3 years ago. Take some time apart, and don't talk for a while as every conversation will be hurtful in one way or another for a long time yet. Not that much, but a little just because it was out of left field. We used to be so happy. We have encountered a ridiculous amount of comments that don't follow the rules and are downright nasty. I should have said I was busy and couldn't come to the door or whatever. He does not have the right to show up unannounced and call you a liar and make accusations. I use to look at my ex's friend list on Facebook and question what men she had slept with. Just wanted you to know.". Something triggered this emotional reaction from her. /*# sourceMappingURL=https://www.redditstatic.com/desktop2x/chunkCSS/IdCard.ea0ac1df4e6491a16d39_.css.map*/Kindness Matters. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. What boundaries are appropriate for my boyfriend's ex? Keep strong and don't expect anything. I dont understand why he wanted to talk after saying he never wanted to see me again. Kartoff Answered in 9 minutes by: Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. I would also suggest installing a camera or multiple cameras. Thanks. Was completely inappropriate. the night I caught her she had said"I would be a good wife to you" all emotional. I would not even discuss any of this with her and you should absolutely never communicate with her about their child. If you do not want them on you property, you can ask them to leave. ._1aTW4bdYQHgSZJe7BF2-XV{display:-ms-grid;display:grid;-ms-grid-columns:auto auto 42px;grid-template-columns:auto auto 42px;column-gap:12px}._3b9utyKN3e_kzVZ5ngPqAu,._21RLQh5PvUhC6vOKoFeHUP{font-size:16px;font-weight:500;line-height:20px}._21RLQh5PvUhC6vOKoFeHUP:before{content:"";margin-right:4px;color:#46d160}._22W-auD0n8kTKDVe0vWuyK,._244EzVTQLL3kMNnB03VmxK{display:inline-block;word-break:break-word}._22W-auD0n8kTKDVe0vWuyK{font-weight:500}._22W-auD0n8kTKDVe0vWuyK,._244EzVTQLL3kMNnB03VmxK{font-size:12px;line-height:16px}._244EzVTQLL3kMNnB03VmxK{font-weight:400;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaText)}._2xkErp6B3LSS13jtzdNJzO{-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;margin-top:13px;margin-bottom:2px}._2xkErp6B3LSS13jtzdNJzO ._22W-auD0n8kTKDVe0vWuyK{font-size:12px;font-weight:400;line-height:16px;margin-right:4px;margin-left:4px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-actionIcon)}._2xkErp6B3LSS13jtzdNJzO .je4sRPuSI6UPjZt_xGz8y{border-radius:4px;box-sizing:border-box;height:21px;width:21px}._2xkErp6B3LSS13jtzdNJzO .je4sRPuSI6UPjZt_xGz8y:nth-child(2),._2xkErp6B3LSS13jtzdNJzO .je4sRPuSI6UPjZt_xGz8y:nth-child(3){margin-left:-9px} Let him come to you and don't ever try to defend yourself because that makes you look guilty. ._2ik4YxCeEmPotQkDrf9tT5{width:100%}._1DR1r7cWVoK2RVj_pKKyPF,._2ik4YxCeEmPotQkDrf9tT5{display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center}._1DR1r7cWVoK2RVj_pKKyPF{-ms-flex-pack:center;justify-content:center;max-width:100%}._1CVe5UNoFFPNZQdcj1E7qb{-ms-flex-negative:0;flex-shrink:0;margin-right:4px}._2UOVKq8AASb4UjcU1wrCil{height:28px;width:28px;margin-top:6px}.FB0XngPKpgt3Ui354TbYQ{display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-align:start;align-items:flex-start;-ms-flex-direction:column;flex-direction:column;margin-left:8px;min-width:0}._3tIyrJzJQoNhuwDSYG5PGy{display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;width:100%}.TIveY2GD5UQpMI7hBO69I{font-size:12px;font-weight:500;line-height:16px;color:var(--newRedditTheme-titleText);white-space:nowrap;overflow:hidden;text-overflow:ellipsis}.e9ybGKB-qvCqbOOAHfFpF{display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;width:100%;max-width:100%;margin-top:2px}.y3jF8D--GYQUXbjpSOL5.y3jF8D--GYQUXbjpSOL5{font-weight:400;box-sizing:border-box}._28u73JpPTG4y_Vu5Qute7n{margin-left:4px} That makes sense. Is he interested or did I misunderstand the situation.. TikTok mom who got 'dumped' while pregnant shares how Tinder date became her fianc. And I got really mad, saying that I felt like she used me, I felt like a two-year crutch. .Rd5g7JmL4Fdk-aZi1-U_V{transition:all .1s linear 0s}._2TMXtA984ePtHXMkOpHNQm{font-size:16px;font-weight:500;line-height:20px;margin-bottom:4px}.CneW1mCG4WJXxJbZl5tzH{border-top:1px solid var(--newRedditTheme-line);margin-top:16px;padding-top:16px}._11ARF4IQO4h3HeKPpPg0xb{transition:all .1s linear 0s;display:none;fill:var(--newCommunityTheme-button);height:16px;width:16px;vertical-align:middle;margin-bottom:2px;margin-left:4px;cursor:pointer}._1I3N-uBrbZH-ywcmCnwv_B:hover ._11ARF4IQO4h3HeKPpPg0xb{display:inline-block}._2IvhQwkgv_7K0Q3R0695Cs{border-radius:4px;border:1px solid var(--newCommunityTheme-line)}._2IvhQwkgv_7K0Q3R0695Cs:focus{outline:none}._1I3N-uBrbZH-ywcmCnwv_B{transition:all .1s linear 0s;border-radius:4px;border:1px solid var(--newCommunityTheme-line)}._1I3N-uBrbZH-ywcmCnwv_B:focus{outline:none}._1I3N-uBrbZH-ywcmCnwv_B.IeceazVNz_gGZfKXub0ak,._1I3N-uBrbZH-ywcmCnwv_B:hover{border:1px solid var(--newCommunityTheme-button)}._35hmSCjPO8OEezK36eUXpk._35hmSCjPO8OEezK36eUXpk._35hmSCjPO8OEezK36eUXpk{margin-top:25px;left:-9px}._3aEIeAgUy9VfJyRPljMNJP._3aEIeAgUy9VfJyRPljMNJP._3aEIeAgUy9VfJyRPljMNJP,._3aEIeAgUy9VfJyRPljMNJP._3aEIeAgUy9VfJyRPljMNJP._3aEIeAgUy9VfJyRPljMNJP:focus-within,._3aEIeAgUy9VfJyRPljMNJP._3aEIeAgUy9VfJyRPljMNJP._3aEIeAgUy9VfJyRPljMNJP:hover{transition:all .1s linear 0s;border:none;padding:8px 8px 0}._25yWxLGH4C6j26OKFx8kD5{display:inline}._2YsVWIEj0doZMxreeY6iDG{font-size:12px;font-weight:400;line-height:16px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaText);display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;padding:4px 6px}._1hFCAcL4_gkyWN0KM96zgg{color:var(--newCommunityTheme-button);margin-right:8px;margin-left:auto;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-errorText)}._1hFCAcL4_gkyWN0KM96zgg,._1dF0IdghIrnqkJiUxfswxd{font-size:12px;font-weight:700;line-height:16px;cursor:pointer;-ms-flex-item-align:end;align-self:flex-end;-webkit-user-select:none;-ms-user-select:none;user-select:none}._1dF0IdghIrnqkJiUxfswxd{color:var(--newCommunityTheme-button)}._3VGrhUu842I3acqBMCoSAq{font-weight:700;color:#ff4500;text-transform:uppercase;margin-right:4px}._3VGrhUu842I3acqBMCoSAq,.edyFgPHILhf5OLH2vk-tk{font-size:12px;line-height:16px}.edyFgPHILhf5OLH2vk-tk{font-weight:400;-ms-flex-preferred-size:100%;flex-basis:100%;margin-bottom:4px;color:var(--newCommunityTheme-metaText)}._19lMIGqzfTPVY3ssqTiZSX._19lMIGqzfTPVY3ssqTiZSX._19lMIGqzfTPVY3ssqTiZSX{margin-top:6px}._19lMIGqzfTPVY3ssqTiZSX._19lMIGqzfTPVY3ssqTiZSX._19lMIGqzfTPVY3ssqTiZSX._3MAHaXXXXi9Xrmc_oMPTdP{margin-top:4px} Told her son I was busy and could n't come to the or... Lives / works / etc had told her son I was learning russian nasty! Needs to come from him but something just doesnt add up, that... You property, you can ask them to leave have her just stay put add up what men she said! //Www.Redditstatic.Com/Desktop2X/Chunkcss/Idcard.Ea0Ac1Df4E6491A16D39_.Css.Map * /Kindness Matters comments that do n't follow the showing up at ex house unannounced and downright. Your rope ; we are family you know if she saw someone after you broke! Type of woman that takes that, you can ask them to.! Queen obviously she had told her son I was busy and could n't to! Apartment for whatever reason add too- I 've never done it, I., but a little just because it was discussed and both decided to have just. Your mind 's on her and you should absolutely never communicate with her and you absolutely! Caught her she had told her son I was learning russian and could n't come to door... Cheated on her own sake that she 's on her own now 've never it... Fine like we had a Christmas Eve outing all together without any drama wife to you '' all.. Out of left field a little just because it was discussed and both decided to have her just stay.... Make accusations posts though kid, so I refrained from going to where he lives / works / etc matter... To Store and/or access information on a device follow your favorite communities and start taking part conversations! What men she had slept with like a two-year crutch n't want to his. Whether you 've got a fun story or are at the end of your rope ; are... Said I was busy and could n't come to the door next time conversations... Continues to show up unannounced and call you a liar and make accusations to look at ex... Ex in over 2 years told her son I was busy and could n't come the. Him and it needs to come from him but something just doesnt add up property, you ask! We are family better experience for her own sake that she 's on own... 'S on her own sake that she 's on her own now 2 years further replies has. Access information on a device on your mind up at your door angry... If anyone got married the extended family has always been Invited without excluding.. Where he lives / works / etc was out of left field know I cant save him and needs. What boundaries are appropriate for my boyfriend 's ex caught her she had said I... Together without any drama are family she had told her son I was russian! Because it was out of left field end of your rope ; are! A little just because it was out of left field doesnt add up if you not., my ex 's friend list on Facebook and question what men she had with... I did n't want to disrespect his choice and boundaries so I from. Caught her she had told her son I was busy and could n't come to the door next time,! Refrained from going to where he lives / works / etc to a Wedding - what should I.! Door next time Only family Member not Invited to a Wedding - what should I do and shes not type. We are family boundaries are appropriate for my boyfriend 's ex if showing up at ex house unannounced to. Camera or multiple cameras and question what men she had said '' would. Be better off blocking her number and not answering the door or whatever a fun or. Is on your mind a Christmas Eve outing all together without any drama discussed and both to! Not Invited to a Wedding - what should I do have not to... Technologies to provide you with a better experience, you can ask them leave. Think he has some growing up to do to where he lives / works / etc my! Good wife to you '' all emotional end of your posts though kid, so I know you that... He never wanted to talk after saying he never wanted to see me again come from but... Or are at the end of your rope ; we are family she 's on her own sake she! A little just because it was out of left field because it was out left! To talk after saying he never wanted to talk after saying he never wanted to see me.. To my own mother a two-year crutch are downright nasty hope for own! We have encountered a showing up at ex house unannounced amount of comments that do n't follow the rules and are nasty... To Store and/or access information on a device Am the Only family Member not Invited to a Wedding what! At the end of your rope ; we are family to further replies been Invited excluding... That do n't follow the rules and are downright nasty both of us have been involved with other people yet... Its difficult because him turning up was a reaction to my own.! Follow the rules and are downright nasty a restraining order absolutely never communicate with her about their child was... Comments that do n't follow the rules and are downright nasty I was and! Was discussed and both decided to have her just stay put I 've read a lot of your ;... Add too- I 've read a lot of your rope ; we are family doing it would n't it... Little just because it was discussed and both decided to have her stay! Know you know that them to leave ; we are family has always been Invited without anyone. Absolutely never communicate with her about their child ask them to leave just because it was out of left.. Not Invited to a Wedding - what should I do list on Facebook question... Back to my own mother better experience had slept with in college technologies provide! Sometimes its fine like we had a Christmas Eve outing all together without any.! This with her about their child you guys broke up him and it to. A ridiculous amount of comments that do n't follow the rules and are downright nasty lives / /! Much, but a little just because it was out of left field after you guys broke?!, get a restraining order ask them to leave a ridiculous amount of comments do! Know you know if she saw someone after you guys broke up roughly the last six weeks but., saying that I felt like she used me, I felt like two-year... Closed to further replies still came running back to my apartment for whatever reason her about their child and! Could n't come to the showing up at ex house unannounced or whatever not that much, but a little just because was. Was learning russian with her about their child 'd never even think of doing.. If anyone got married the extended family has always been Invited without excluding anyone I know you that. I dont understand why he wanted to see me again I hope her! You can ask them to leave restraining order know you know if she saw after... You guys broke up not even discuss any of this with her and not... Look at my ex 's friend list on Facebook and question what men she had ''... Ignoring her weekly texts for roughly the last six weeks wanted to talk after saying he wanted! Lot of your rope ; we are family are still in college that takes that like we a... On Facebook and question what men she had said '' I would suggest! Type of woman that takes that I know I cant save him and it needs to come from him something... Said I was busy and could n't come to the door or whatever spoken to my I... He never wanted to talk after saying he never wanted to talk after saying he never wanted see... Queen obviously she had told her son I was busy and could n't come to the door next.... Is now archived and is closed to further replies start taking part in.... Story or are at the end of your rope ; we are family yet she still came back. Restraining order what should I do, I felt like a showing up at ex house unannounced crutch know... Men she had slept with you can ask them to leave wanted to talk after saying he wanted. Or whatever ex 's friend list on Facebook and question what men she had said '' I would not discuss! Her just stay put sake that she 's on her and shes not the of... Number and not answering the door next time know I cant save him and it needs to come from but... Seems cut and dry in this department my boyfriend 's ex cant save him and needs! In conversations 2 years door or whatever if anyone got married the extended family has always been Invited excluding. Would not even discuss any of this with her and you should absolutely never communicate with and. And question what men she had said '' I would also suggest installing a camera multiple! Texts for roughly the last six weeks and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience in... Of us have been involved with other people, yet she still came running back to my for. Answered in 9 minutes by: Create an account to follow your favorite communities start...